{"id":1160,"date":"2009-05-29T03:01:00","date_gmt":"2009-05-29T03:01:00","guid":{"rendered":"http:\/\/blog.chasclifton.com\/?p=1160"},"modified":"2009-05-29T03:01:00","modified_gmt":"2009-05-29T03:01:00","slug":"your-prayers-our-magic-do-they-always-help","status":"publish","type":"post","link":"https:\/\/blog.chasclifton.com\/?p=1160","title":{"rendered":"Your Prayers, Our Magic–Do They Always Help?"},"content":{"rendered":"

It’s a common argument among Pagans–Witches in particular–when conversing with monotheists to say something like, “What you call prayer, we call spells,” or words to that effect.<\/p>\n

No doubt we think ours are better. No one is testing them, but there have been a number of studies attempting to quantify the effects of “intercessory prayer,” usually meaning prayer for people facing health crises.<\/p>\n

Some seemed to show that such prayer helped, results that were seized upon by Christians.<\/p>\n

But the results of one are not so simplistic, reports Christianity Today<\/span> magazine. (I urge you to read the whole thing<\/a>.)<\/p>\n

The study received some attention at the time [three years ago], but seemed to have escaped the notice of many Christians, probably because of its surprising\u2014and for Christians, disturbing\u2014conclusions.<\/span>
. . . .<\/span>
<\/span>
The result: The group [of surgical patients] whose members knew they were being prayed for did worse in terms of post-operative complications than those whose members were unsure if they were receiving prayer. The knowledge that they were being prayed for by a special group of intercessors seemed to have a <\/span>negative<\/em> effect on their health.<\/span><\/p>\n

Where does that leave people who say that you should get permission before “working” for anyone?<\/p>\n

The authors then turn theological:<\/p>\n

Our prayers are nothing at all like magical incantations [!]. Our God bears no resemblance to a vending machine. The real scandal of the study is not that the prayed-for group did worse, but that the not-prayed-for group received just as much, if not more, of God’s blessings. In other words, God seems to have granted favor without regard to either the quantity or even the quality of the prayers.<\/span><\/p>\n

And then they have to jump through more theological hoops to answer the obvious question, “Then why pray at all?”<\/p>\n

Obviously, that is not our theology. Pagans do not expect the gods to conform to our standards of either\/or logic.<\/p>\n

But try reading the article and substituting our language for its authors’. How would you respond?<\/p>\n","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"

It’s a common argument among Pagans–Witches in particular–when conversing with monotheists to say something like, “What you call prayer, we call spells,” or words to that effect. No doubt we think ours are better. No one is testing them, but there have been a number of studies attempting to quantify the effects of “intercessory prayer,” […]<\/p>\n","protected":false},"author":1,"featured_media":0,"comment_status":"open","ping_status":"open","sticky":false,"template":"","format":"standard","meta":{"jetpack_post_was_ever_published":false,"_jetpack_newsletter_access":"","_jetpack_dont_email_post_to_subs":false,"_jetpack_newsletter_tier_id":0,"_jetpack_memberships_contains_paywalled_content":false,"_jetpack_memberships_contains_paid_content":false,"footnotes":""},"categories":[],"tags":[24,72,29],"class_list":["post-1160","post","type-post","status-publish","format-standard","hentry","tag-christianity","tag-magick","tag-witchcraft"],"jetpack_featured_media_url":"","jetpack_sharing_enabled":true,"jetpack_shortlink":"https:\/\/wp.me\/p6xQTg-iI","jetpack_likes_enabled":true,"jetpack-related-posts":[{"id":14050,"url":"https:\/\/blog.chasclifton.com\/?p=14050","url_meta":{"origin":1160,"position":0},"title":"Will Christians Fulfill a Pagan Emperor’s Plan?","author":"Chas S. Clifton","date":"July 15, 2025","format":false,"excerpt":"Julian \"The Philosopher,\" Rome's last Pagan emperor (mid-360s), would get chuckle out of this. (Although to me he comes across as super-serious, he must have found some things funny. I hope.) While he was force-fed Christian theology by bishops, growing up in a royal Christian household, he later studied ancient\u2026","rel":"","context":"In \"Christianity\"","block_context":{"text":"Christianity","link":"https:\/\/blog.chasclifton.com\/?tag=christianity"},"img":{"alt_text":"","src":"https:\/\/i0.wp.com\/blog.chasclifton.com\/wp-content\/uploads\/2025\/07\/Julian_antioch-mint-bull.jpg?resize=350%2C200&ssl=1","width":350,"height":200},"classes":[]},{"id":5555,"url":"https:\/\/blog.chasclifton.com\/?p=5555","url_meta":{"origin":1160,"position":1},"title":"Francis of Assisi: From Radical Monk to Garden Ornament","author":"Chas S. Clifton","date":"May 31, 2013","format":false,"excerpt":"The real-estate supplement of the Taos News this week carried an article titled \"Five Must-Haves for a Beautiful Backyard.\" Oddly enough, four of the five items* were available at the store owned by a person interviewed for the story. \"Saint Francis of Assisi, the patron saint of animals, is one\u2026","rel":"","context":"In \"American religion\"","block_context":{"text":"American religion","link":"https:\/\/blog.chasclifton.com\/?tag=american-religion"},"img":{"alt_text":"St. Francis as a bird bath with the wolf of Gubbio.","src":"https:\/\/i0.wp.com\/www.catholichomeandgarden.com\/images\/Saint%20Garden%20Statues\/Saint%20Francis%20Garden%20Statue%20Birdbath.jpg?resize=350%2C200","width":350,"height":200},"classes":[]},{"id":743,"url":"https:\/\/blog.chasclifton.com\/?p=743","url_meta":{"origin":1160,"position":2},"title":"Who’s a Celt now? – 3","author":"Chas S. Clifton","date":"October 20, 2006","format":false,"excerpt":"\"Celtic Spirituality\" as religious outbidding.During the recent Spanish Peaks Celtic Music Festival, St. Benedict Episcopal Church in La Veta, Colorado, took out a small ad in the program for their Celtic Spirituality weekend.Yes, before the contemporary Pagan movement was underway, various Anglicans were pushing \"Celtic spirituality\" as a way to\u2026","rel":"","context":"In \"American religion\"","block_context":{"text":"American religion","link":"https:\/\/blog.chasclifton.com\/?tag=american-religion"},"img":{"alt_text":"","src":"","width":0,"height":0},"classes":[]},{"id":291,"url":"https:\/\/blog.chasclifton.com\/?p=291","url_meta":{"origin":1160,"position":3},"title":"Idol-worshiping Episcopalians Christianity Today reacts\u2026","author":"Chas S. Clifton","date":"October 26, 2004","format":false,"excerpt":"Idol-worshiping Episcopalians Christianity Today reacts to Pagan aspects of an Episcopal Church experiment with women's liturgy. Other conservative Christian bloggers chime in: check out the \"comments\" section of this blog. The ordination of women led to \"sexual narcissism,\" you see. It's been a long time--like 40 or 50 years--since the\u2026","rel":"","context":"Similar post","block_context":{"text":"Similar post","link":""},"img":{"alt_text":"","src":"","width":0,"height":0},"classes":[]},{"id":1302,"url":"https:\/\/blog.chasclifton.com\/?p=1302","url_meta":{"origin":1160,"position":4},"title":"What a Difference the Suffix ‘-ess’ Makes","author":"Chas S. Clifton","date":"February 5, 2010","format":false,"excerpt":"Following a link from another religion blog, I dropped into today on Beauty Tips for Ministers (subtitled \"Because you're in the public eye, and God knows you need to look good.\")I read this:SO many of you have written to let me know that TLC will be airing an episode of\u2026","rel":"","context":"In \"American religion\"","block_context":{"text":"American religion","link":"https:\/\/blog.chasclifton.com\/?tag=american-religion"},"img":{"alt_text":"","src":"","width":0,"height":0},"classes":[]},{"id":5670,"url":"https:\/\/blog.chasclifton.com\/?p=5670","url_meta":{"origin":1160,"position":5},"title":"Is the Church of England Desperate or Just Confused about Paganism?","author":"Chas S. Clifton","date":"June 21, 2013","format":false,"excerpt":"With the obvious news peg of summer solstice celebrations at Stonehenge, the Telegraph reports on a rather odd initiative from the Church of England. 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Ministers\u2026","rel":"","context":"In \"Christianity\"","block_context":{"text":"Christianity","link":"https:\/\/blog.chasclifton.com\/?tag=christianity"},"img":{"alt_text":"","src":"","width":0,"height":0},"classes":[]}],"_links":{"self":[{"href":"https:\/\/blog.chasclifton.com\/index.php?rest_route=\/wp\/v2\/posts\/1160","targetHints":{"allow":["GET"]}}],"collection":[{"href":"https:\/\/blog.chasclifton.com\/index.php?rest_route=\/wp\/v2\/posts"}],"about":[{"href":"https:\/\/blog.chasclifton.com\/index.php?rest_route=\/wp\/v2\/types\/post"}],"author":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/blog.chasclifton.com\/index.php?rest_route=\/wp\/v2\/users\/1"}],"replies":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/blog.chasclifton.com\/index.php?rest_route=%2Fwp%2Fv2%2Fcomments&post=1160"}],"version-history":[{"count":0,"href":"https:\/\/blog.chasclifton.com\/index.php?rest_route=\/wp\/v2\/posts\/1160\/revisions"}],"wp:attachment":[{"href":"https:\/\/blog.chasclifton.com\/index.php?rest_route=%2Fwp%2Fv2%2Fmedia&parent=1160"}],"wp:term":[{"taxonomy":"category","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/blog.chasclifton.com\/index.php?rest_route=%2Fwp%2Fv2%2Fcategories&post=1160"},{"taxonomy":"post_tag","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/blog.chasclifton.com\/index.php?rest_route=%2Fwp%2Fv2%2Ftags&post=1160"}],"curies":[{"name":"wp","href":"https:\/\/api.w.org\/{rel}","templated":true}]}}